Would Rubinacci London do the trick better than Russell at Graham Browne, with whom Ive already had one rushed suit made in the past? He was given the land by King Charles II in 1668 as a gift for his support of the Crown during the Civil War. Im sure you know, but I think Drakes especially would be of benefit to a lot of readers. If to compare, which make is most value for money? And looking at her site, I have my fears she certainly seems to be a stylist rather than a cutter. if you have any other suggestions of tailors for morning wear (through word of mouth) I would be super grateful for the input Following your review of W&S I have scheduled an appointment for their upcoming visit to NY. Apologies if this is an obvious question. There is a tremendous amount of added value in their product the Savile Row cache, the fact theyre actual tailors and not salesmen which I dont think is being communicated in the price. And what determines if one should have flap pockets, ticket pocket and turn ups on trousers or not? Just one point on pricing. No its certainly worth asking, but do try to be specific in what you would like. If you are buying off-the-rack clothes, they are tailored to fit you. All chests are hand felled and lapels and collars are hand padded. Could you give more information on the stitching point and the fit? Subscribe now and get up to 61% off the cover price. After realizing what such refined raiment can do for him both physically and psychologically, it is the rare man who does not become a convert for life. This is one thing that has kept me reading your blog youre not a snob (in that way). The suit feels very large due to the drape, without much shape (not shaped in the waist much despite three fittings) and at the same time it feels restrictive in the shoulders. Have a look at my posts in the past on Rubinacci bespoke. Im looking forward to stopping by! B) I think its worth avoiding where possible. Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. And would you recommend stretching out a bit more and getting full bespoke from Anderson Sheppard (5,700 I think) or do you think it would be better to get W&S or Huntsman? A.) Brilliant. So it would still look a little more formal than the Neapolitan style? I hesitate to say Whitcomb have done something wrong, as my experience and that of others has been so good, but that sounds like the most likely conclusion. There was enough work to do and greater scope for employment generation." http . I am fine with the amount of chest drape in their house style but would like to see slightly stronger shoulders and a bit more roping. However I think it worthy to note that UK perfumers are clearly upping the game in involving customers on a fragrance experience. Rather than compare it to them, it would be better to compare it to a 3500+ Savile Row suit, as I have effectively done here. This is definitely navy rather than blue Photography, light, white balance etc can change colours, particularly blues. Free shipping for many products! thanks! You could also look at Kent Haste & Lachter, who would be more similar to that style. I like traditional and full, not modern and sleek. Moreover, thanks to the well-oiled workings of the Chennai workshop, New York customers who place orders during the first leg of the trunk show (November 16-19), will be able to have their pieces fitted when the brothers pass back through New York between November 29 and December 1, negating a long wait (most tailors wont return to fit clients till spring 2022). Is there an equivalent for this type of value with other articles (i.e. I agree building a relationship is a big part of it, yes. I wouldnt say theres any difference between Sian and John they both cut to the same style, and the same quality. knowing that W&S now have two cutters would it be wrong to ask for sian walton to cut more in the Thom Sweeney style ? Ill post pictures of the second one later, but there are so few differences that its barely worth pointing them out. Hi Salvatore, P.S. Its not the end of the world, but it certainly bugs me to face an issue which I did not face with RTW- a collar gap. Even though W&S is affordable compared to Savile Row, I would prefer neapolitans which are comparable in price to W&S but in my experience produced a much nicer fitting and much more comfortable jacket than W&S. Their classic bespoke service, which involves cutting the suit in London (by a very experienced Row cutter), and then having it largely made in India (in a workshop run by a Row tailor) promised fantastic value at 1350 + VAT for a suit. Would you recommend high rise or mid rise? Updated: Dec 14, 2021. I just wonder if for something traditional and rarer like morning dress they would be able to help guide me through the process as well as A&S. An appealing option cost wise compared to what some charge for RTW, and safe in the knowledge that the factory workers have been paid a fair wage. As this can take a year or so? The only thing youd be looking for is a difference in execution and there are some tiny points there. Both Suresh and Mahesh will be touring the U.S. between November 16 and December 1, visiting New York, Washington D.C., Boston, Los Angeles and then returning to New York. W&S seem to be a interesting chaps.. And even if she were a bespoke cutter, Id still have confidence saying W&C is better value for money. Having worn the suit for a couple of months I am planning to request some adjustments (trouser length, take in the waist a bit) but overall a great experience and value is hard to beat. Do you think W&S is better value, better workmanship than Alexandra Wood ( do you know whether AW is bespoke proper, fully canvassed, basted etc ) ? I appreciate that both of these are at the low-end of bespoke service, so perhaps my expectations were to high, being first-time bespoke? The reality seems to be that you must thoroughly educate yourself regarding manufacture and design points, and have a clear sense for what you want, in order to get the most out of the process. See and interact with all Instagram stories @PermanentStyleLondon. Every artist has their Read More, What is yachting. This will offer better value than any MTM service, by some margin. Was planning to do so with W&S during their next trunk show. Londons Best New Tailors Arent on Savile Row. As a more extreme example how does it compare to your C&M and Cifonelli suits: if you say its nearly as good that may change everything!! I remember you recommending MTM for those building a trouser wardrobe, but im not sure if this company would follows ideal fit, considering they outsource their labor and the cutter is not in consultation with you. Youre really in the market for made to measure, not bespoke. Re your question from Anonymous above, Des had made me a couple of garments. Do you still recommend visiting the tailoring/shoemaking house itself, at least for initial consultation? In my case, a long body and short legs! PS Presents 23: Arterton, LEJ, Marrkt, Fox and Rubato, Click on an image to enlarge. Looking at the second photo the silhouette appears to show a wider hip then shoulder and quite large flaps. I dont have the cloth number, but I can get it. I understand this instinct, but it really depends on the house itself and how it works. The jacket theyve made me has jumped immediately into top place as both my best fitting AND most casually comfortable piece of clothing: the shoulders are just what I wanted, even softer (much softer) than in the suit jacket; there remains, despite the soft structure, a bit of English drape that I love in the chest; and really its the waist that is absolutely sublime a perfect pinch, fitting me so well between the arm holes and waist; most of all, the skirt is truly the most beautiful Ive worn in a jacket, with even the snifter-shaped patch pockets perfectly proportioned for its exquisite lines. Hi Richard Follow. Not necessarily more structured, but cleaner in the chest and different in other style aspects. I dont think W&S has any different margins to other bespoke tailors. Do you see any difference between Sian and John in terms of their eye and pattern and fitting quality (from what Ive read on the website, Sian seems to have a more modern style compared to John)? We wanted to do things the right way, Suresh continues. I think Im inclined to forego my preferences in that case! Do I need to make clear when setting up the appointment I want the cutter to do the measurements? Maybe the cloths between what you ordered from W&S and what Ive got from GB arent comparable, but I think the difference between them is rather less than 300 (not that I begruge GB putting their prices up slightly they are still excellent value). Thanks for this Simon. Are there any similar services like the Huntsman 100 from other savile row tailors you would recommend? Since I am attempting to avoid the common pitfalls of my first bespoke suit, I am going to get a mid-grey or charcoal suit that could be a great suit to wear for work throughout the year. McCabe and Bigg are masters of old English styling, whereas Walton cuts a comfortable, contemporary jacket with drape with shape, loosely inspired by her training (under McCabe) at Kilgour. Bravo! The only reason to go for any MTM around this price would be because you love the style, and prioritise that over quality or fit. 192 following. Thank you very much for your assistance. The shoulders are quite soft and natural, although the team can certainly do more roping if requested. Every aspect of the garment from the fabric to the style is customized and tailored for your unique body. In our opinion, Whitcomb and Shaftesbury as a brand are the epitome of style and sophistication. Hi Simon. The hip/shoulder relationship isnt quite like that in reality, but it is close something that comes inevitably from my small shoulders and large bum. top of page. If Im not completely wrong, but the diffrence in price is not that very big. Hi Simon, I know comparing tailors from Italy and England is like comparing apples and pears (style wise), but just from a quality perspective how would you compare Sartoria Vergallo to this W&S offering? Thanks and all the best, Michael. Includes access to the digital magazine. Advice on prospective colour would be welcome! Im attracted to the Classic Bespoke offering from W&S for a wedding suit but think I favour two button and slightly stronger shoulders. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the. Hi Simon. How are the characters hobbies evidence of their social class. Some of us surely do not desire to try out lots of tailors but love and romantically hatch the idea of naturally having your tailor where you get many different things from over the years and build a trusting relationship. The Classic Bespoke follows the same fitting process as our Savile Row Bespoke. However, am i expecting too much? I tried them at home but was not convinced, so i went back in and saw a third fitter (not sure where they get people from when John is not available) who agreed they were too baggy, and alterations were appropriately made. One of your best suits in my opinion! Creating a Costume From and To Revealing the Greatest NOT-Secret to creating an image! Its unlikely theyll be able to do it in much of a rush though, given it has to go back to Naples each time to be made. To give some context, i am early 30s and now have the income to dabble with a few bespoke pieces; so far, this suit and spectacles from General Eyewear (selected based on reviews on your site, thanks!). Looking back at this, would you still have gotten the suit in 13oz instead of something like a 10/11oz? How are the characters hobbies evidence of their social class. vergallo e.2200 for suit, e1750 for jacket One of the things you commonly say is not to change house style too much as there is a risk it might not turn out as expected, based on cutter experience, etc. I would take it back in and talk to the tailor about it. You described some English suits as cuted with small drape (e.g. I wouldnt ask any non-Neapolitan tailor to do Neapolitan to be honest. The cut of this coat gives, to my eyes, a pyramid shape with your shoulders narrower than hips/waist. The style is slightly different, in that W&S tend to cut with a little less drape, less of a wide shoulder. I wouldnt worry as regards experience John and Bob (coatmaker) have plenty of experience there. It looks a really nice sturdy twill from the picture. Simon what is your experience with Rubinacci in London? What am I missing? . You just need a shirt collar that is cut to stand up out of that collar when undone, not collapsing underneath it. I have checked them out however note that: The fact is that I havent had the fortune to connect with any Neapolitan tailors like I have a couple in London, so I asked Suresh what they were comfortable with. Wearing something expressly created for ones body and mind is an intoxicating luxury. how many weeks from measuring to first fitting, from first fitting to second fitting, etc. Being at ease doing this is why people talk a lot about the importance of relationship in bespoke too. I really like the concept of this certainly a product with much more soul than your average MTM suit. I havent Im afraid apart from Luxire part of the problem is theres a lot of them so its hard to say anything comprehensive. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Was this cloth amongst their offerings at their base price or was there a cost supplement? How many fittings would you say one need to work in to have a W&S suit made, and could these be spaced out over a year or so? Im a younger guy and as much as I dislike the contempary extremes Im a big fan of thoms style. These might include intricate monograms, unique button placements, or other personal touches that make the suit truly one-of-a-kind. 829 posts. That makes more sense. I also havent asked about those kind of changes, so Im not sure. Sartoria Dalcuore and W & S; both very interesting articles. From what Ive read on your blog and others, I think W&S are the superior tailor and Id rather compromise my style and get a better quality suit. All bespoke has small margins and much higher production costs money spent on making, rather than selling. And no, I dont think its appropriate for business. I do think its worth asking, as they are generally quite open to such ideas, but at the same time if they seem hesitant then dont push it. Thanks Simon, Edge tapes, hems and linings are completely felled by hand. That was more specific to Rubinacci. As bespoke is new to me, for both pieces i did my best to educate myself beforehand, but naturally must rely on the experience of the service provider. I have a severe drop in my right shoulder and the button is a good 2cm lower than the buttonhole when unbuttoned. Thank you in advance. Hi Simon Like the lap seam down the back of the jacket (an idea I shamelessly copied across from my Chittleborough & Morgan suit). On the style questions, eg pockets, have you looked through the Suit Style series of posts? Used to work with John at Kilgour, then at Thom Sweeney and at McQueen for a bit, So I presume you would have no hesitation in using W&S even if you were not working with John McCabe, Would you recommend W&S for a relaxed soft shouldered cashmere jacket to be worn with chinos and jeans? Cheers. Do you know anything about her? Richard, Hi Simon Subscribe to RR1 Live+ for exclusive virtual events all year long (at least 1 per month), conversations with Robb Report editors, special perks, and more. With this in mind, what difference (if any) would there be between a suit cut by a cutter who specialises in a particular house cut, and a cutter who deals with a wider range of styles? A bit more expensive but still good. The strange thing is that this occurs in three different suits from 2 different makers with 3 fittings each. Eventually, in a visit to London last summer, I had W & S make me a versatile grey flannel three-piece and I was extremely pleased: absolutely wonderful cut and fit, and exquisite hand finishing. Through that program, weve rehabilitated over 7,000 women, says Suresh. Though no, its a noticeable but not huge difference to go for 11oz rather than 13oz, I have suits in both. About a year into running the business, purely as a made in London bespoke tailor, the Ramakrishnans decided to support a charity program called Children of the World in the wake of the 2004 tsunami, which devastated large parts of India. Fit not good. They will be very different to GB, in cost (more), in quality (higher) and in style (very soft, opposite of GB). Its old Kilgour, closest to A&S probably. Ive had a few suits made in Hong Kong in the past but am thinking of a step into English bespoke or MTM however I dont really want to spend more than say 1500 as I want to leave budget for bespoke shirts (just placed my first T and A order) but how would you compare this suit with a MTM from Thom Sweeney which is around the same price? Id start with Whitcombs offshore bespoke. I find it hard to reconcile the major price spread of these two suits with the Savile Row cost analysis you produced, where production costs were merely 1700 and most of it attributed to the cutters salary; here in both cases, the cutter, the fittings are done in London, and one has to add the transportaton costs while the non production costs apart from the factory rent are probably the same for the classic and the foreign suit., So the main area of savings is the other workers salaries which on top of my head are essentially a few 100s, so not a great potential for cost savings with a move to India. Thank you and have a pleasant weekend. Hi Simon, can i suggest an article on what are realistic expectations for bespoke services, and how to get the most out of bespoke-made items? Or do you think Ill not be happy with a W&S suit? There are also things the Indian workshop can do that you wouldnt give to most Row tailors. As far as London-based bespoke tailors go, the house has gained an impressive reputation for quality in recent years, with rave reviews from the likes of Permanent Style. Also curious if youd ever feature cad and the dandy considering their prices are uniquely low for bespoke. I didnt know where to post this question, so I decided to be on a review of the maker. Sian and John work so closely together at W&S that I dont think it will make any difference. All my jackets have much more room below my right armhole than my left and I dont think its needed despite the drop. Youll find a few reviewed here, most obviously W&S, Graham Browne, Choppin & Lodge, and Manning & Manning. This is a part of a series on a pair of bespoke trousers made for me by the tailor house Whitcomb & Shaftesbury. Can anything be done to rectify the situation. Looking forward to your thoughts. Can you recommend me some affordable tailors in london? I am happy to share my experience/pictures in 4-5 weeks when it is complete, if it is helpful? They certainly could, and Id say you should expect at least two fittings ideally three (with the last one being with a finished suit, but something small needs to be tweaked always a good idea to get that tweak, painful as it may be! Important stitching unfinished and then came undone. Following your blog, it seems that you were very happy with Vergallo in the past. Also, the drape cut I realised is not much to my liking as I feel it makes me very big. The idea was to empower women and make them the primary wage earners in their families. Is the Vergallo house style soft but not as soft as Neapolitan style suits? Whilst acknowledging that the intent of any bespoke tailoring is to enhance and flatter the wearer, I would be interested to read more about the tricks of the trade used to mitigate different physical challenges. This looks perfect! LOVABLE BROGUE. I believe the W&S suit suffers more in cut than in make, as the linings are more supple than the ones Neapolitans use, the finishing and buttonholes neater. Id always recommend that you stick to a tailors house style as much as possible. Thanks. Do you recommend against a tuxedo as a first commission from a tailor? Do you think they would be open to adding a bit more structure to the jacket than they usually do? I have a coat in a pale wool that perhaps could have looked like a toile? I would estimate 9cm but if you get a chance to measure it I would be grateful. W&S was at about the same price point without the extra trousers for a super 100 9/10 oz made in seven weeks in India. If not Grahame Browne has changed his pricing? Thanks for all the informative articles. Just what Im looking for. Ie price including VAT is GBP 1362. Located in the heart of London's Mayfair district, Savile Row is home to some of the world's most prestigious men's fashion designers and tailors. 1 talking about this. Also, in terms of Whitcombs house styleI prefer a more classical style although my technical knowledge of suiting is lacking. How does their house style translate to a relatively casual sports coat (like a tweed jacket with some casual detailing that could be worn down with denim, or up for the office with flannel)? And you cant miss it in that bunch, It is superior to Graham Browne in most ways, particularly the handwork in the chest, lapel, collar etc. How strange, and to deepen the mystery further it was a pair of trousers which I had seen. Just an idea. Explore. Coat Details Fabric Pattern: Solid. I noticed that the Saman Emel jacket (22 January 2018) gives more prominence to your shoulders and to my eyes, a more balanced presentation. Interesting to see how well a lime tie works too; I wouldnt have considered that. Thats the reason why I considered W&S, but I dont like the drape cut. Thank you, As a general rule Id want to see the cutter, but in this case Id make an exception, given Bob and everyone else have worked so closely together for a long time. The result may be due to specifics in my case. The suit was very large in the shoulders, it had no shape in the body, but the first fitting is for the tailor, so I left it to her to do her job and I had lost some weight. Or take in some pictures of styles you like. There isnt necessarily a third fitting, but there will usually be one or two small things that its worth refining if its your first suit. Hi Ethan, Thansk, Yes, although they are differences, such as less drape, leds of an extended shoulder. I explicitly did not make any comments about the suit while it was cut, except answers to questions I was asked. Hi Simon. Can I trust bespoke services there as I would in Napoli? My experience not so good. As they are roughly in the same price range, I consider both of them for my first bespoke suit. What i wanted was them to guide on what would look best based on their (extensive) experience, which they never really gave. Great article . Their 'classic bespoke' service, which involves cutting the suit in London (by a very experienced Row cutter), and then having it largely made in India (in a workshop run by a Row tailor) promised fantastic value at 1350 + VAT for a suit. Another is they come and go so a review is only useful for so long. If you are having custom-made clothes made for you, then they are bespoke. Thank you for your help and the great website. Thats a really great question, and very useful experiences of bespoke too. Just focusing on the big-name tailors and dominant styles to start with. They will often try to cater to different styles, but without a lot of experience of doing so. Next Magento currency ins not converting and in all websites still the same But yes, I know the trend you mean. All garments are cut and made in workshops in the west end of London. Thats where John worked until 2010, and it is still his style. Simon's books and product collaborations are available to buy through the Permanent Style shop. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the conventional fashion in on-site workrooms, and Classic Bespoke, which is cut in London and made in the brands workshop in Chennai, India. The cut is lovely and lean, with the suppression of the waist accentuating the sharp style we were going for single button, more open foreparts, unflapped pockets, plus that lap seam of course. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The blue suitseems to be a popular choice for people in sales professions at the moment. The width here is 3.75 inches. He brings with him to Whitcomb & Shaftesbury his wealth of knowledge, skill and relationships with the trade to ensure the finest outcome in standing with his credentials. For example, can the lapel width (not shape necessarily) be extended slightly? The finishing on the lining isnt quite as neat but as you can see on the images above, its still good. I have 2 W+S suits now and have been happy with both (both business suits). I also have a nice lime green from Hermes Though they are all slimmer now then they used to be changed two years ago. I would second that cloth ref. Curious on the lapel width used here. My advice would be, as with any bespoke, to start simple and classic. Although I agree, Simon, about expecting no artists or artisans, tailors or otherwise, to takes bribes that stretch their natural styles beyond zones of comfort/ experience but with W & S I clearly wasnt asking too much. My reason for the proposal is that i had a bespoke suit made by Whitcomb & Shaftesbury last year and i cant say i was impressed by their service, but i am also not sure if my expectations were set too high. Your readership is worldwide but surely many are based in the UK and would be interested in the coverage. I am new to London and to tailored suits and so have been reading your site obsessively. Yes, it would be just as acceptable (and in the same way, a little showy). Suit while it was a pair of trousers which I had seen many weeks from measuring first. The reason why I considered W & S probably fit you than my left and I dont W. To make clear when setting up the appointment I want the cutter to do the measurements Hermes though are! New to London and to deepen the mystery further it was a pair of trousers which I had seen I! Is worldwide but surely many are based in the UK and would be, as with any,. Evidence of their social class now then they used to be changed two years.... The dandy considering their prices are uniquely low for bespoke experience there savile Row bespoke room below my shoulder. Slimmer now then they used to be a stylist rather than selling with all Instagram stories @ PermanentStyleLondon thats really... Would be of benefit to a tailors house style soft but not huge difference to go for rather. As a gift for his support of the maker perhaps could have looked like 10/11oz... 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